Help me understand your thinking. I really want and need to understand a couple of things you believe:
1) How and why do you believe that America is not under threat of another terrorist attack?
2) Why do you believe that it's our fault for being attacked on September 11, 2001?
3) Why do you believe that the government should take care of you and your families through government entitlement programs... and 3a) why should my tax dollars pay for this when I don't avail myself of these same programs because I believe we are responsible for taking care of ourselves and families?
4) Why do you believe that President Bush is evil when his actions have kept you alive for the last five years?
5) Why do you love Bill Clinton and look past his mockery of the presidency?
6) Why do you have a double standard for Republicans and your own party? We know we have a higher ethical and moral standard than you and most of us try to live accordingly. Your attempting to hold us to that same ethical and moral standard is laughable.
7) Why are you so afraid of Donald Rumsfeld?
8) Did you really like Al Gore or did you vote for him just because he was the Dem on the ticket?
9) Global warming... c'mon.
10) Do you really admire Michael Moore, Al Franken, Sean Penn, Susan Sarandon and Alec Baldwin or just want to hang out with the popular kids?
11) Why was Hurricane Katrina President Bush's fault? Do you know that most people refer to hurricanes as an act of God?
12) What's the love affair with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jong Il, Mahmood Ahmadinejad, Idi Amin, Pol Pot and Stalin? Okay, current dictators only.
13) Does anyone really watch Keith Olbermann?
14) Why do you support illegal aliens? They just want your union job.
15) How many polls have you participated in?
Duane R. Patterson: The Obama Mind Trick
7 hours ago
41 comments:
I couldn't resist, so i'll give it a try.
1) How and why do you believe that America is not under threat of another terrorist attack?
I believe America may very well be attacked again. It is clear there are people in this world who are our enemies and want to do us harm
2) Why do you believe that it's our fault for being attacked on September 11, 2001?
It was not our fault! I can understand the (il)logic of the attackers [they want no American influence in their lives/worlds], but that does not make it our fault.
3) Why do you believe that the government should take care of you and your families through government entitlement programs... and 3a) why should my tax dollars pay for this when I don't avail myself of these same programs because I believe we are responsible for taking care of ourselves and families?
I believe gov't has a central role to play in our society. I do not expect them to take care of me, or my relatives, but I do not think it is out of line to believe that our government should give a hand up to people when there are legitimate reasons. I also believe most people in America have already decided that gov't should be involved in our lives or we would not have things like federal water projects, roads, libraries, social security, medicare, etc.
4) Why do you believe that President Bush is evil when his actions have kept you alive for the last five years?
I do not believe Bush is evil. I believe he has either been wrong, or has lied on a host of issues, as have others in his administration. For example, we were told there were WMD's. We were told it would cost less than 100 billion dollars to fight the war. We were told oil revenue would finance the war. We were told Iraq was using aluminum tubes for nuclear centrifuges. We were told the war would be a cakewalk. We were told the insurgency was in its' last throes. We were told there were enough forces in Iraq. We were told it would be a short war and be over during his presidency. Each of those statements has either been shown to be wrong, or a lie. Whichever it is, it does not bode well for the man in charge. If a CEO of a major Fortune 500 company made that many misjudgements or mistakes, he would be unemployed.
5) Why do you love Bill Clinton and look past his mockery of the presidency?
I advocated his resignation because I believe he disgraced the presidency!
6) Why do you have a double standard for Republicans and your own party? We know we have a higher ethical and moral standard than you and most of us try to live accordingly. Your attempting to hold us to that same ethical and moral standard is laughable.
I hope I don't have a double standard. I am not a big fan of most of these guys no matter which side of the aisle they are from.
7) Why are you so afraid of Donald Rumsfeld?I am not afraid of Rummy. See above for my thoughts in general.
8) Did you really like Al Gore or did you vote for him just because he was the Dem on the ticket?
I couldn't vote for him because I felt he was a straight up liar. And as for the election, if the people of Tenn. who know him best, did not want him, enough said.
9) Global warming... c'mon.
Maybe, maybe not. It is not a big issue for me.
10) Do you really admire Michael Moore, Al Franken, Sean Penn, Susan Sarandon and Alec Baldwin or just want to hang out with the popular kids?
I have a lot of admiration for them as performers, but not as politicians. And yes, Franken's radio show was horrible.
11) Why was Hurricane Katrina President Bush's fault? Do you know that most people refer to hurricanes as an act of God?
And both of those statements are incorrect. I'll leave the theology alone, but even a casual observer should be able to admit that the Federal response to Katrina, along with city and state responses was slow, inept, and generally terrible.
12) What's the love affair with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jong Il, Mahmood Ahmadinejad, Idi Amin, Pol Pot and Stalin? Okay, current dictators only.
Did you know Ahmadinejad has entered a treatment facility? Apparently he, like Foley, Mel Gibson, and countless others is only being misunderstood, something that will all be forgiven once his therapy is complete and his alcoholism cured.
13) Does anyone really watch Keith Olbermann?
No, but he is great with sports.
14) Why do you support illegal aliens? They just want your union job.
It's a big issue. You can find my thoughts on this on my blog. look in the archives, April 2006. You'll be surprised.
15) How many polls have you participated i
This may be my first one!
Thanks for giving me the chance to respond. Be kind when you shoot back.
Dave Miller - good job! You're not really a liberal.
Come on Dave move to the light you'er almost there
Frankly I dislike the labels Liberal or Conservative. Let's just say I make informed decisions. I don't buy what Politicians tell me. I do my own research and then decide.
1) How and why do you believe that America is not under threat of another terrorist attack?
American will always be under threat of a Terrorist attack.
Here's a question for you? Why hasn't Homeland Security done a better job of sealing our borders, and putting more dollars and resources on our border states, instead of giving millions to law enforcements agencies in states that are not entry points into this Country?
2) Why do you believe that it's our fault for being attacked on September 11, 2001?
It's only our fault from the standpoint that there was intelligence that pointed to the risk, that we couldn't or wouldn't act on. We have to fix those breakdowns, and strengthen our intelligence while honoring the Constitution and Law of the Land.
3) Why do you believe that the government should take care of you and your families through government entitlement programs... and 3a) why should my tax dollars pay for this when I don't avail myself of these same programs because I believe we are responsible for taking care of ourselves and families?
I don't need any help for me and my family, and don't expect any. However, there are sick, disabled, elderly that we have to look out for. The able bodied have no excuses. The only tough choice is to find a way to help kids born into an environment with irresponsible parents.
4) Why do you believe that President Bush is evil when his actions have kept you alive for the last five years?
Pssstttt. I'll give Bush credit for doing what he believes to be right. Evil. Come on. Ask a decent question. I fault him for cronyism. He has not' in good faith, and in the interests of this nation but qualified people in critical jobs. We have made too many mistakes in Iraq, and Afghanistan that should have been prevented. He has a fault of Hubris. He is too stubborn, and inflexible.
5) Why do you love Bill Clinton and look past his mockery of the presidency? Mockery? The man has the morality of a Male Alley Cat. Fiscally, he is an Einstein compared to Bush. Frankly he tried to push a lot of things through Congress to combat Terrorism and Congress abandoned him.
6) Why do you have a double standard for Republicans and your own party? We know we have a higher ethical and moral standard than you and most of us try to live accordingly. Your attempting to hold us to that same ethical and moral standard is laughable.
Tripe. I hold all Americans to the same standard. We have always aspired to a higher standard in the World. The fact that we are even talking about athorizing any form of torture or treatment sickens me.
7) Why are you so afraid of Donald Rumsfeld?
He is arrogant, and inflexible. Way too many times he has flat ass ignored the advice of the State Department and the Pentagon.
8) Did you really like Al Gore or did you vote for him just because he was the Dem on the ticket?
He is a well intentioned, but not up to the task.
9) Global warming... c'mon.
Global warming. You are blind if you don't believe Global warming is happening. We can debate all we want about what is causing it. Fossil fuels may have NOTHING to do with it, but the fact is the Earth is warming. Glaciers which take ten's of thousands of years to form that melt in decades are your proof.
10) Do you really admire Michael Moore, Al Franken, Sean Penn, Susan Sarandon and Alec Baldwin or just want to hang out with the popular kids?
Moore is an opportunist, fat slob.
I admire Franken, Baldwin, Penn, and Saradon for being consistent and true to themselves, whether I agree with them or not. You may not like Penn's politics he puts he money and actions where his mouth is. He went to Iraq. He went to New Orleans. Again you may not like his politics but he tried to make a difference.
11) Why was Hurricane Katrina President Bush's fault? Do you know that most people refer to hurricanes as an act of God?
He hired Brownie, and Chertoff. Aside from that it wasn't his fault.
12) What's the love affair with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jong Il, Mahmood Ahmadinejad, Idi Amin, Pol Pot and Stalin? Okay, current dictators only.
This question doesn't really deserve an answer since it is insulting. Here is a question for you. Sadaam used to be our best buddy. Yet we ignored his atrocities for years. Why is that? The leader of Khazickstan is a maniac, yet our best buddy, why?
13) Does anyone really watch Keith Olbermann? No.
14) Why do you support illegal aliens? They just want your union job. don't. I have Republican neighbors who have hired illegals to do yard work, construction. I think they are hypocrites. I have never hired an illegal and never will.
15) How many polls have you participated in?
Lot's on the phone.
Dave Miller - good job! You're not really a liberal.
Yes he is. I agree with his posts and I am also a liberal. Don't believe the hype about us. There's a lot more in common between us than you think.
Mr. Sleep--great answers! Logical, lets see how Jen responds to reality. My guess is with more sarcasm and Rush soundbites.
PB
#1 Past and current actions by our government and major corporations have assured future attacks on this nation--read your political history Jen. Bush has not kept of safe, merely created more terrorists and isolated us.
#2 It was not "our" fault directly, it was "our" governments and "our" corporate interests in the natural resources of other countries that fostered the terrorist movements and 9/11. Read your history Jen.
#3 Avoiding as much sarcasm as possible here: Jen you call yourself a political science major right? What is one of the central roles of governement? nuf said. No, actually not nuf said.Hey, I have no problem withyou not paying taxes or social security or property tax, but I better never see you driving or sending your kids to a public school, and you damn well beter save tons of money for you retirement, because I am not going to pay your medical bills!
#4 Bush has kept me alive? Thats like saying Clinton kept me alive. That is a lousy question based on a generalization, and a poor one at that.
#5 Another generalization, seems you can't make a single argument without a cynical bash/generalization. Never liked Clinton, never voted for the clown. He did disgrace the office, just like Foley disgraced the House and Bush/Cheney lied and disgraced the office.
#6 Yet another generalization, how do you know you have a higher moral standard than me? That is a simple insult! Both parties are equally immoral, just that the Republicans in office currently can add the title of hypocrits to their list as they claim the moral high ground yet do no better than the Dems. Read some history Jen and get real.
#7 Rummy--I am not afraid of him either, just know his history and his current track record with regards to war. He's a loser and he is proving it on the battle fields of Iraq and Afghanistan! He has underfunded, under estimated and under armored our troops. Another hypocrite. Was he not part of the party that CLAIMS to be all about the troops. Rummy is loosing 2 wars. What a joke!
#8 Hated Gore and voted for Bush! What a mistake, and I regret it till this day, but at least I am honest about it and not in denial about the reality of the political HACKS that make up the republican hypocrit party.
#9 Well, I prefer to listen to the scientists over Rush any day of the week. Who cares really? Mother Earth will take it all back some day anyway. Do I choose to be "green" to a degree, but I am aware and not un-read about the issue. Suggest you spend some time reading some real scientific studies instead of getting your information from Rush.
#10 no. I hate corporate media, Hollywood and the like,s they are all fools and leeches for varied reasons. Let's look at your cynical, silly question by asking this? Do you like Foley, DeLay and Gannon? nuf said.
#11 see Mr. Sleeps answer.
#12 Another hit-job cynical question. Hate em all, just another bunch of corrupt leaders, just like our own. At least they have the balls to stand up for themselves and call a spade a spade in efforts to point out or abuses of their natural resources and our troops on their soils. Funny I am not seeing any of Chave's troops in the USA and I am not seeing them trying to get oil from under Oklahoma. Next. Really jen these questions show your lack of reading.
BTW--I am being sarcastic because your questions are sarcastic and demeaning.
#13 No. Does anyone really watch network or cable or satelite television for anything other than a pitiful laugh? I wish the answer was yes, but...
#14 I don't personally know of anyone that supports illegals. Jen you are showing your ignorance and ivory tower attitude again by assuming we are all union workers and, jesus, that question is just so lame and full of cynisism and generalities that i say screw it, not going to answer any more of it!
#15 ummm, I don't respond to polls other than this stupid little gimmick. I vote instead. Rush sure has filled you with some stupid generalities. I can read you like a book Jen.
PB
the answers I anticipated and expected. thanks
the answers I anticipated and expected. thanks
Sweet! Why interact when you can evade and act smug instead? Brilliant move!
1) How and why do you believe that America is not under threat of another terrorist attack?
America always has been and always will be under threat. Let's not ignore the All American Christian White Male threat(Timothy McVeigh) just because Osama bin Laden and his Saudi hijackers perpetrated the last attacks.
2) Why do you believe that it's our fault for being attacked on September 11, 2001?
It's not our fault "for being attacked". It's the government's fault for having both poor detection, prevention and response to the attacks. See the 9/11 Commission's report for details.
3) Why do you believe that the government should take care of you and your families through government entitlement programs... and 3a) why should my tax dollars pay for this when I don't avail myself of these same programs because I believe we are responsible for taking care of ourselves and families?
Two reasons
1) Paying forward. While we are capable of working, we pay taxes. If we become unemployed or unemployable due to illness, accident or age, the government helps with our necessary expenses.
2) It is our obligation to help care for those who are less fortunate than ourselves. I find that the government is better at identifying and providing services to the needy. I have two sons with developmental delays. One also has cerebral palsy. Government employees have helped to screen, evaluate and provide the appropriate services to them. There is no private charity that approaches that level of service.
Talk to the disabled and handicapped about the government services they use. Ask them how much their lives are improved by these services. Ask them what private charities would provide these services if the government services did not exist.
4) Why do you believe that President Bush is evil when his actions have kept you alive for the last five years?
Let's see. I disagree with both parts of that question. I don't think Bush is 'evil'. I don't think his actions have personally kept me alive for the last five years because Bush isn't omnipotent either. Maybe you should rephrase that one.
5) Why do you love Bill Clinton and look past his mockery of the presidency?
I love Bill Clinton? Wow. Again I don't agree with that statement. I don't think Clinton made a mockery of his two terms in office either. Clinton was a competent politician and president. About the Monica affair - that's between Bill, Monica and Hillary.
6) Why do you have a double standard for Republicans and your own party? We know we have a higher ethical and moral standard than you and most of us try to live accordingly. Your attempting to hold us to that same ethical and moral standard is laughable.
I'm confused by this question. Can you make it clearer what exactly you are referring to? Foley?
7) Why are you so afraid of Donald Rumsfeld?
I'm not afraid of Rumsfeld. I think he is an incompetent Sec of Def and should have been replaced years ago. Of course, if you think his Iraq policies have been stellar successes, you may have a different opinion.
8) Did you really like Al Gore or did you vote for him just because he was the Dem on the ticket?
I don't "like" politicians I vote for. I vote for the ones I think will do the best job. After all, we are hiring them to serve us, not be our pals. And I don't know the man personally so I can't know if I'd like him or not.
9) Global warming... c'mon.
Do you believe it is even possible? Because if you don't believe global warming is possible, there's not point in talking to you about it.
10) Do you really admire Michael Moore, Al Franken, Sean Penn, Susan Sarandon and Alec Baldwin or just want to hang out with the popular kids?
Al Franken is a smart, funny man. I get that from his radio show. I only know the others from their work in entertainment. They're good at their jobs as far as I know.
11) Why was Hurricane Katrina President Bush's fault? Do you know that most people refer to hurricanes as an act of God?
So I should blame God instead? Actually hurricanes are a well researched and tracked meteorological phenomena. Katrina was tracked for days before it made landfall right where they predicted it would. Isn't science grand? However the federal disaster response was slow, mismanaged and disorganized. Bush appointed the men who ran FEMA and DHS.
12) What's the love affair with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jong Il, Mahmood Ahmadinejad, Idi Amin, Pol Pot and Stalin? Okay, current dictators only.
Love affair? Again, I have no passion for any of these leaders. But I will point out that of Iran, Iraq and North Korea, Kim Jong Il is the one who has launched missiles and is closest to having a nuclear weapon, yet we invaded Iraq on the pretext of destroying WMDs. Why?
13) Does anyone really watch Keith Olbermann?
I don't. No cable. But his Special Comments hit You Tube within hours of broadcast. Isn't the internet wonderful?
14) Why do you support illegal aliens? They just want your union job.
I do? What union job?
15) How many polls have you participated in?
Several including a detailed poll about the oil industry that was about two weeks before BP announced the pipeline leaks. Coincidence?
Fabian
Okay, I'll bite, although it strikes one as a bit unseemly to troll for hits AND pitches to be convinced of the simply obvious and, perhaps, virtuous.
1) How and why do you believe that America is not under threat of another terrorist attack?
Huh? How does one answer a premise that no sane person believes? WTC x 2 + OKC + USS Cole + Anthrax means a trend. Taking our eye off the ball with follies like Iraq while Bin Laden wandes about and Taliban go free in Waziristan means when not if an attack will occur.
2) Why do you believe that it's our fault for being attacked on September 11, 2001?
Our fault? No. Our failure? Certainly. This administration had other, more shiny ambitions than Terror. Missile shields for one. You're living through a product demo of the Republican problem right now with Foley. There's pique and desire, and there's character and duty, unglamorous as it's practice may be. Foley was a threat, a clear one. But his political value clearly outweighed doing the politically uncomfortable, correct thing. Apply that logic to our fickle meddling in the Middle East. Double it against all the talk of freedom and opportunity we bray about compared the arbitrary support we give to leaders who care not one whit for their average citizen. There you go.
3) Why do you believe that the government should take care of you and your families through government entitlement programs... and 3a) why should my tax dollars pay for this when I don't avail myself of these same programs because I believe we are responsible for taking care of ourselves and families?
I don't. But nor do I belive that I should buy armaments that don't work effectively, designed for battle scenarios with superstate soviets that no longer exist when schools full of working and middle class children go begging for basic materials and have to sell Kathryn Beich candy to try and make up the difference. I belive in the 80/20 rule. 80% of the time 80% of the people can or would rather fend for themselves. The other 20 and 20 can be attributed to bad luck, human weakness and the vagaries of our gene pool. Of that 20 and 20, a further 20% may be intractable. I must accept that very old continuum. You want to get into eugenics to solve this problem, feel free.
4) Why do you believe that President Bush is evil when his actions have kept you alive for the last five years?
Evil? Not even as a joke. Avaricious, wrathful and prideful? Sure, and not anything like I recommend in business workshops as "Leadership" material or example. In fact, as a person who crowed about a "CEO Administration", he is a case study for the dark side of the CEO coin that boards of Directors need look out for--secretive, vindictive, impervious to advice, stubborn to changing circumstance and overly demonstrative in all the wrong places. Every president of America has kept most Americans alive for almost 200 years, although your claim is simple correlation, not cause. If you want to conflate domestic deaths with success, Lincoln was a spectacular failure.
5) Why do you love Bill Clinton and look past his mockery of the presidency?
Love is his wife's job, hard as he made it. I measure a person by the totality of their contributions. The only "clean" soul floats up in the sky somewhere, I suppose. Infidelity, misleading your spouse, a personal failing, falls far below misleading your flock so to speak. Not by accident, not in the heat of weakness, but willfully and repeatedly as we are finding out. If you cheat on your wife, its her choice if you're shamed in public. Cheat on the Constitution, it's the public's duty to see you are banished and shamed.
6) Why do you have a double standard for Republicans and your own party? We know we have a higher ethical and moral standard than you and most of us try to live accordingly. Your attempting to hold us to that same ethical and moral standard is laughable.
That's not a question. It's a salute you give to yourself. You have obviously already decided your virtue is greater than mine. You would better know me by my deeds than by your guesses or the whispers of your neighbors.
7) Why are you so afraid of Donald Rumsfeld?
Afraid is what keeps Rumsfeld in his job. The fear isn't mine. I suspect it is however yours. Just as you presume one man, Bush, has kept you safe, so too do you look to another "bold" figure to offer the illusion of safety? Men like Rumsfeld don't make me scared, except for the troopers over whom they have authority. Men like Rumsfeld make me angry at their being in the rightful place of better men.
8) Did you really like Al Gore or did you vote for him just because he was the Dem on the ticket?
Both. I'm a Democrat for a reason. The alternative has too narrow a definition of "Success" and national pride.
9) Global warming... c'mon.
Hmm. I find it odd that the *science* of stem cell research can offer such certain and absolutely horrible dystopic futures to some minds, yet those same people laugh at clear factual trends and examples of the earth's accelerated entropy. Hunters and Fishermen have seen enough--the ponds they knew as boys and girls have changed: NWF Survey
10) Do you really admire Michael Moore, Al Franken, Sean Penn, Susan Sarandon and Alec Baldwin or just want to hang out with the popular kids?
A silly question. Their messages are sometimes sound, their words sometimes shrill. They are, like most Americans people with opinions, somtimes silly. Unlike most *average* Americans they are held to account for their stupidities. Dumb is anonymously universal, celebrity makes it specific. (And yes, I'm leaving Coulter and philandering, rehabbed radio hosts out of this.)
11) Why was Hurricane Katrina President Bush's fault? Do you know that most people refer to hurricanes as an act of God?
Yes, and I know that certain religious sects refuse blood transfusions because of "edict form God." Should they choose differently, it is imcumbent on me not to refuse to send and an ambulance and doctor. You're not seriously suggesting that we should not expect competence and minimum standrds of accountability form our elected leaders, are you? Should government stand down in the face of all natural disasters, or just one's in states with lots of Democratic voters and poor people?
12) What's the love affair with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jong Il, Mahmood Ahmadinejad, Idi Amin, Pol Pot and Stalin? Okay, current dictators only.
You're being silly again.
13) Does anyone really watch Keith Olbermann?
Ask Nielsen. My knowledge is that unpopular products. media or otherwise, are seldom continued to be offered when the market shows no interest. This does not explain the decade of red ink at the Washington Times, however.
14) Why do you support illegal aliens? They just want your union job.
I support immigration. I am part immigrant, part revolutionary war indian fighter descended. I support *serious* efforts to manage the legal flow of immigrants into this country that has given us the panoply of surnames and experiences we enjoy. But I cannot for the life of me understand how we can resolve the situation without a militarized border, berlin wall, and police state mentality running 200 miles inland the length of our country. Somehow, that picture revolts me in my "American Self-image" postcard. We have macquilladoras from US manufacturers a stones throw from Brownsvile and Del Rio. This is an economic question you should bring up with the Business RoundTable which seems to like low wages and downward pressure on them.
15) How many polls have you participated in?
Like this? One, yours.
Actually, it is a relief to see some fairly sensible liberals. I appreciate your honesty.
Re: your survey. Where do you come up with your opinions about Democrats or Liberal People?
1. Of course America is under the threat of attack from terrorists, a fact that has multiplied exponencially since your beloved Bush declared war on iraq.
2. I do not believe the attack against the United States was our country's fault. Terrorists use cowardly methods to force their will on innocent people.
3. Are you calling Social Security a government entitlement? If so, my answer is simple, it is not an entitlement program. To start with, people are not being asked if they want to contribute to it -- you work you pay. Secondly, contributions are made directly from our paychecks, and interest is earned on that money earned. It is our money, not the government's. As a side issue, if the government would keep their greedy little hands out of the funds, and use them as they were intended, there would be no problem.
Also, if you had lived through World War II, and live in poverty, which most people did. You would have no problem in providing for less fortunate people. I am suggesting that the Welfare System coudn't use a bit of a house cleaning. As, clearly, there are people on welfare that don't belong there. In particular, people who come here illegally.
It is not in the best interests of anyone to see children go without food, or education. It is clear you thing there is enough work for everyone...well, there isn't. The field workers and factory workers in this country rarely make enough to provide for their families. I gaurantee you FJ...if you were to suddenly be reduced to poverty, and no one would hire you, you'd take whatever you could to survive. There are millions of people is this country who are under employed, and not by choice.
Jen, do you know what makes news "news"?
It's usually that is extreme or rare. That's what makes it "newsworthy."
If you'e judging one half of almost 300 million people based on what you've seen or heard from newsworthy examples... well, you see my logic.
Away from the noise of the sideshow carnival barkers, your life and that of a liberal are as different as Dreyer's Vanilla is from Edy's Grand.
Elderly parents, raising kids, waving off Britney Spears, fretting about piercing, correcting manners, unpredictable bosses, mortgages and bills--all the same. The sprinkles are about the only variants. You see a molehill as a mountain of difference, possibly, because in a depersonalized, bar-coded, mass-produced world, any small difference makes us feel that somehow we matter and have something uniquely special about ourselves.
Who could blame you. But that doesn't make you Republican. It makes you human, and American.
Please, consider that thought.
Wow......lookie all the riff raff coming up.....oh my...gone for day, and lookie what backs up!!!
Hello Jen! PB......other not so well known, ah......typers.
My, my, my.....again, the LIBS hating the BUSHmeister theory in effect huh??
I have a question for the insatiable Libs...
" Why do you hate being number one? "
Or, if you'd like, Why do you hate America?
I wonder this question, for all the crap you people expound.
Katrina......oh, BUSH's fault cause HE hired the FEMA folks.
Ummmm, yea, but YOU people were in charge of the state, city AND local township. DEMO run. Why, do you HAVE to have BUSH people tell you to vacate a burning building, BEFORE it collapses on you?
Funny, other nearby states either:
A) Got hit by Katrina;
B) Get hit by every other hurricane
and THEY seem to be able to vacate BEFORE the storm hits. What, DEMO run Luisianians are too slow, poor or dimwitted to know better?
Unemployment is 4.9%??? Kinda low, isn't it?? Bush's fault too, or just blind luck? Lowest rate for unemployment so far, even YOU people acknowledge those number, when they suit you.
Speaking of......BUSH ENHANCED THE TERRORISTS....really?
So, you people are finally admitting, that terrorists are OKAY, so long as they were/are in the PRE BUSH number areas???
That, it's okay to have been hit all those times, but more than the past 10 years is NOT acceptable??
What then, in your minds, IS acceptable???
And, why is it, when we discuss Iraq, we always hear the left include, " 100,000 Iraqi's killed..blah blah ". Like, that's the same number BEFORE we started there....300,000 were killed then. Oh, my bad, Saddam's numbers don't count, cause he's okay, it's the BUSHmeister who's bad.
Pffffffft.....100,000 civilians killed...and how many were terrorists? Or foreign fighters??
Funny, how they've gone from:
A) Killing OUR troops, to;
B) Killing THEIR troops, to;
C) Killing civilians.
Gee, and you believe the Terrorists are WINNING???
So, again, do you hate this Nation for what it DOES, has DONE or what it's TRYING to do?
I guess in your minds, next time a world disaster hits, WE as America, shouldn't send one hot nickel, cause ( shudder ) it might piss someone off, and create more terrorists!!!
unreal.
Well, I can't identify as a liberal, but I can't resist question #10. I refuse to watch Michael Moore's work, and aren't the rest actors? That's irrelevent. What I was going to say was:
In Nov. 2004 I was freshly 18 (just for four months), and really wanted to vote. Being the kind of teenager who was really big into "gay rights," (read as: I liked gay porn), and someone whose awfully jittery about conflict of any sort, I generally hated Bush. I had moved up to Madison with a really good friend as her nanny, and one day I was kind of riffling through books when I found "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them." I fell in love with this title immediately, so I picked it up despite my hesitant attitude towards politics.
I couldn't put it down; I was surprised, and I laughed my ass off for half of it. So, being young and niave and freshly influenced by a comedian, I went out two weeks later and voted for Kerry. Looking back on it, with all the stuff I've learned since then, I'm kinda glad Kerry didn't win.
Soooo... Where I was going with that was that Franken at least can pick up a certain niche audience (besides liberals, apparently) simply by being clever.
Pardon the sort of random comment, but I thought adding ten cents would be fun. ^^;
Wow, Inaranjoiv. You balance a checkbook with that brain? Okay, that was impolite. Still, you might want to peek at tommorrow's news. Johns Hopkins docs fresh back from Iraq are gonna update that 100,000 number times 6. That's a lot of dead terrorists. Better get some rest. You'll be needing that shift key a lot very shortly..
Well, Inaranjoiv, I've got to be honest. I didn't understand more than about 30% of what you wrote. I don't think the problem is with me; I understand clear, articulate writing just fine. I just didn't understand what points you were trying to make.
You're--what? Pro-Bush? Anti-Bush? I can't tell.
Chances are Fouro and Doc, if you can't decipher what I'm saying??
You're a lib. Or, too educated to comprehend simple things.
I love the over educated.
Leo, careful with the broad brush responses.
Hating America? LOL.
Bush's hiring decisions. He's put too many people in critical roles, who aren't up to the task.
"Supposedly" Wingnuts are fiscal conservatives, yet we have bizillions of dollars being mismanaged, and y'all are silent on the topic.
Now we are talking about building a freaking wall on the border. I thought the bridge to no where in Alaska was a joke and now this. Another financial boondoggle yet the fiscal conservative silence remains.
Lib's hate America because we demand accountability?
The sheet you guys are shoveling out on your sound bites sound kinda ketchy, but are about as sound as a 3 dollar bill.
Calling all Beatles fans: Number Nine, number nine, number nine...
Jen just a little website link to back question number nine.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1011-03.htm
PB
Ms Sleep says, careful with the broad brush, then states:
"Supposedly" Wingnuts are fiscal conservatives, yet we have bizillions of dollars being mismanaged, and y'all are silent on the topic."
Ya'lls??? Broad brush here??
Or, touche???
What libs demand accountability??
I didn't hear much of it DURING Katrina.....unless, the mayor of New Orleans AND Gov of Louisiana aren't Lib, much less DEMO.
Weren't THEY accountable??
0 = /
Ah-huh......
as for the fence?? Illegals are a hot topic nowadays, unless you're blind, doofus or just ignorant of what's up with America. Whether you agree or not, it IS a hot button issue. However, the half azz measures won't hold up, cause the public know's they're half-azzed. So, Republicans can ACT like they care, but they better START caring as well.
Leo, I kinda thought you would like the "y'all" reference.
Accountability. Sure the mayor, and Govner should be shot or drawn and quartered. Y'all :) note I never said Bush was "totally" responsible for the Katrina fiasco, nor were Brown, and Chertoff. Does Bush deserve some blame and accountability for the poor planning and execution? Yes.
Does Brown deserve some blame? Yes.
Same for Chertoff, da Mayor, da Govner, and the stupid populace who coulda left but decided to stay.
Y'all will note, I served up fiscal responsibility and accountability and Katrina gets
volleyed back at me.
Blogging with Leo is like a box of chocolates, ya never know what you're gonna get, and that IS the fun of it.
LN, I think you have selective hearing, because there were and are plenty of liberal people who voiced there concerns about the leadership failure, both at the local and federal level.
Also, the real question should be whey do you "Repugs" hate America. You drag your country into a senseless war, underdeploy our troops, fail to provide adequate safety gear for our troops, bend the Geneva Conventions, destroy our countries reputation with other nations, and you have the unmitigated balls to suggest that Liberal People hate America. What utter crap! HD
LN, I think you have selective hearing, because there were and are plenty of liberal people who voiced there concerns about the leadership failure, both at the local and federal level.
Also, the real question should be whey do you "Repugs" hate America. You drag your country into a senseless war, underdeploy our troops, fail to provide adequate safety gear for our troops, bend the Geneva Conventions, destroy our countries reputation with other nations, and you have the unmitigated balls to suggest that Liberal People hate America. What utter crap! HD
Oops, meant Liberals did voice their concerns about the Katrina Disaster. HD
Leo, (can I call you Leo?) as a guy who framed houses to pay for a college education that now finds me in business talking to hospital patients in Charlotte or housewives in Missoula in order to help my clients better serve them, I must say that's the first time I've ever been called an egghead. Thanks.
As for the rest of what you wrote, well, it kinda seems you don't really need anyone else's input. Everything is arranged just as you like it.
Shame on you Mr Sleep, you didn't say diddly about ' fiscal Responsibility '....
You went into fiscal CONSERVATIVES...
nice try tho.
Yea, blogging with me is a trip.
Better than mushrooms too!!!
Least it's legal.
Is that HD hiding behind the curtain? Ah....REPUGS, as you state we are, didn't drag us into a war, the terrorists PUT us into a war....blame away tho.
As to the rest? Must not be a military person with any knowledge.
So, I'll forgo the obvious explanations ( which, we've already had, talk about selective hearing )
Speaking of, we conserves also, speak up of our own parties abuses.
Supposedly, like YOU people do.
But, in the era of massive overspending?? Didn't uncle teddy come up with the Bill that Bush signed up for?? Who's to blame for that one??
Libs....just like a woman: Give em an inch, they'll want the whole 15 miles and STILL aren't satisfied.
Fouro.......wow, you own a business that talks to housewives and hospital patients. Good for you. " In order to help my clients better serve them? "....okay. If you say so.
( Wonder what kind of busniess is that? )
As for your departing comment.......pre arranged?? No, my thoughts are my own. What, you don't have any intellectual counter? I'm sure, if you list YOUR thoughts, yours too, are prearranged. Again, this topic has been broached as well.
I'll never change YOUR thoughts ( especially if your a diehard lib ) no more than you'll ever change mine. WE, sir, play for the audience that's reading the blogesphere. Whatever OPINIONS we sway, will be from how we STAND and/or give credit too the issue at hand.....or, didn't they teach you that in college???
If you feel you are correct in your issue?? Stand up for it!
For you to yield THAT quickly??
Pfffffttttttt.............
Least HD and Mr Sleep stand up for their points [ even if they ARE wrong! 0 = ) ]
What? I'm a legend in my own mind!!!
However I often debate myself, and sometimes I lose those debates.
Ok, calling all Conservatives.
Quid Pro Quo.
1) Conservatives believe big government is bad. What gives?
2) Dem's Tax and spenders? Repub's Tax cut and bigger spenders? Be honest, what is really worse.
3) Tax Cuts for Big Oil to incent them to invest in alternative energies? What? What's better a Tax Cut or a Tax Credit for ACTUAL investment?
4) Why did we give up the hunt for Osama?
5) How do you feel about Torture? The childlike response of "well they're are doing it", doesn't cut it. Two wrongs don't make a right. Something we teach our kids starting at about 2 years of age. Shouldn't Americans aspire to a higher standard?
Okay Mr. Sleep.
1)conservatives believe big govt is bad. You bet we do. Conservatives believe that every man has the capability and opportunity to support himself and his family. He can get himself educated, he can work manual labor.. it doesn't matter as long as he takes responsibility for earning his living. It is not the responsibility of government to make sure every need is met for every man.
2) It is proven economicically that tax cuts promote spending and spending stimulates our economy. So what if businesses benefit. Businesses pay the bulk of taxes in America so if we're buying their products, you save. Duh.
3)stop with the Big Oil whining. I'm not even going to dignify this stupid question.
4) who says we gave up the hunt for Osama? The MSM? Don't think so. You listen to too much NPR.
5) torture... you call waterboarding torture? How about sawing someone's head off? The so called torture we use to get information from the world's most dangerous terrorists has saved countless lives. This is war, not a feel-good round table discussion, and those terrorists want you - yes you liberal - dead. Stop with the whining about torture.
In fact, just stop with the whining and go stimulate the economy.
Ummmm, Jen??
Mr Sleep IS stimulating the economy AND Big Oil at the same time.
More he logs on, and Blogs, more electricity he uses.....ergo, more oil is needed to RUN the electrical plants, unless, he's for the COAL fired ones, then he's ANTI ECOLOGY.
I say, BLOG AWAY !!!!!!!!!!
Plus, his puter is also made with plastics, and ergo, oil based products. So, while they may WHINE about Big Oil, libs use it as much if not more, than everyone else.
Ask any lib driving a Hummer, Escalade or SUV. ( Or drinking water from their PLASTIC containers )
Jen - repost this after you have done some research on what "liberals" really believe.
When you can start thinking beyond what Fox News, Rush, and Coulter tell you to think, I'll be around.
the Doc, you just don't like me because I have original thoughts. Bully for me if I sound like Coulter et al.
Umm, Jen?
2) It is proven economicically that tax cuts promote spending and spending stimulates our economy. So what if businesses benefit. Businesses pay the bulk of taxes in America so if we're buying their products, you save. Duh.
Duh? Careful now. It's proven that *certain* kinds of tax cuts promote certain things, but you're swinging a brush that's broad as the side of barn. You'd get bored if I went all wonkish and CFO on you, so let's just chase down the biggest blooper. Corps float around 14-15% of the federal income tax burden, individuals/families pick up the big ol 85% remainder. Kinda exactly opposite of your very bold assertion? Go here a for a neato chart and here for a table showing the ratios since the income tax was conceived in 1910.
This is war, not a feel-good round table discussion, and those terrorists want you - yes you liberal - dead. Stop with the whining about torture.
Hoo-rah! And ooo-wee. Jen? It doesn't work. It gives you bad intel and makes moral troopers and officers wanna puke. Long term, the blowback of very pissed off survivors and their tales go viral creating exponential numbers of recruits--bad blood for generations. And if you think waterboarding isn't torture, tell it to the Cambodians under the Khmer Rouge. (Yes, we're wayback-thick with military, intel and otherwise, in the extended fouro family.) I'll give you one name: Sayyid Qutb. He is to islamic fundamentalism what Leo Strauss is to our current armchair idealists, the Neocons. The Egyptians tortured Qutb for his fomenting unrest and criticizing the corrupt 60s Egyptian government. He went in an intellectual, cam out a crazed fundamentalist jihadi spreading the word.
Sigh. I've overstayed my welcome and cluttered the place up with facts. Sorry, but Leo wanted me to return serve.
And Leo? I'm an ex-advertising creative director who now helps companies get their act together. Our company uses all kinds of useless liberal ideas to help uncapsize businesses who forgot the dicta: Never sell a product you don't believe in, never forget why you're in business.
Jen, my point on Tax Cuts vs Tax Credits does dignify an answer, and it is a hellova question.
"If" you truly want to incent business to do expand R & D into new technologies, or alternative fuels something do you:
A) Just give them free money and trust them to spend the money on R & D? or
B)Reward them with Tax Credit for actually deploying the funds in the appropriate fashion?
Deal with the question directly.
I'll give you another related example. If you hired a contractor to remodel your kitchen, would you pay that contractor entirely in advance for the job, or would you reward the contractor after completing the job with full payment?
Whining about torture? Pfffft (got that one from Leo).
If you want to live your life by the old "eye for an eye", or a "hand for a hand" so be it.
War is Hell. The ends do not always justify the means. The real policy is if you think you can get away with it do it.
Oh and Osama? Yes the hunt was dropped. Just go back and listen to Bush's actual words. After directing his attention solely on Iraq, W basically said he wasn't worried about Osama. Get real, if we really had a hard on to get him, we never would have pulled back on our assault on Tora Bora. He should be dead right now. Be honest with yourself.
BTW. I've never listened to NPR.
Hello Four.......if you don't mind me quoting you, you stated:
" And Leo? I'm an ex-advertising creative director who now helps companies get their act together. "
Key word: EX
Obviously, you failed in following your LAST two guidline points. I won't hold that against you tho.
0 = )
Oh, and Mr Sleep??
I believe osama is already ' worm bait '. He WAS high on the hog on the news before, now??
All you hear about is old tapes, and video's that aren't dated.
Sorry, killing off osama would NOT end terrorism.
That would be akin to finishing off Tojo during WW2, and stopping the fighting against the Japanese.
Not.
Hahaha--Fouro, I am pretty sure most of the average "conservative" "Neocons" don't even know who Leo Strauss is. Jen and I have visited that topic long ago.
PB
Time will tell is Osama is worm food. We're debating if the job was finished or not. You may be right, but I think we dropped the ball as in he's still alive...BTW, you chosen to twist my words, something you take great offense at when it's done with your words...I never demeaned or attacked Big Oil, or the need for Oil in our economy...my position is that giving a Tax Cut instead of a Tax Credit to incent Oil company's to invest R & D dollars in alternative fuel technology is a braindead approach...you reward behavior not hollow promises...
Leo, when it comes to creativity, I've got nothing on you, friend. But I am disappointed you see only failure as a possible explanation. Surely, you're not endorsing some kind of commie system where one must stay where they are told and not be allowed to better themselves according to their talents and abilities?
Signed,
An ex-cub scout.
PB: You're right about Strauss of course. I would wager (have wagered) that Dubya probably thinks Strauss is the guy who invented canvas dungarees. But, hey, not knowing something about a product or scenario doesn't necessarily negate its other appeals to our vanities, right? (See Jen's fine speech on the operational workings of our government.)
I do note with interest that mrsleep and others seem to offer sensible argument and verifiable info here on jen's blog, only to be met with a sort of windmill air slapping in response. I'm a tad disappointed--like Python's Argument clinic only no John Cleese.
Thankfully there are still some rational conservatives around Sac (though rational democrats disappeared from CA as a whole sometime in the early 90's). Intelligent conservatives and libertarians in the Sacramento area have good reason to be concerned with the Peoples' Republic of Davis and Sac leftists (many are in state jobs). A former acquaintance of mine lives in Davis and operates a successful business in Sac, and like most in the Davis area, he tends to be somewhere to the left of Nancy Pelosi in his politics.
What is amazing is that "liberal" CA businessmen, like this former pal, spout leftist crap 24/7--such as lending support to Hugo Chavez, calling Cheney the mastermind behind 9-11, or quoting from the red-sponsored Lancet report--and then do business with normal Americans. And of course they often will act "conservative" when necessary to close a deal (and I say this as a South Park conservative, not a member of the right-wing). There ought to be a rule that potential customers are informed of a manager's extreme leftist (or rightist, really) political viewpoint: would you have done business with X if you knew that X was, late at night, on various leftist blogs (such as Democrat Underground) basically saying the US govt. were all a bunch of criminals, or supporting the 9-11 conspiracy BS (Cheney guided the planes with a joystick!), quoting from marxist sites (that f-n Lancet report BS) etc.?? I think not. This person is fairly well-known in Sac. Send e-mail note if you would care to discuss this further--I am posting comments on a few Sac/NoCal area conservative blogs--leftist CA businessmen should be known for the hypocritical scum they are.
Thanks,
"Mike"
sanmateomike909@yahoo.com
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